DAY TWO

Śrīla Kṛṣṇa Kṣetra Dāsa: Hare Kṛṣṇa. I understand that we are to continue yesterday evening’s discussion, right? Enthusiasm and determination in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Unfortunately His Holiness Radhanath Swami, who is the embodiment of enthusiasm and determination and from whom we can learn these qualities, is no longer with us.

We can read some passages from Śrīla Prabhupāda’s words because, as I mentioned yesterday, there are certain passages on this subject in Śrīla Prabhupāda’s talks and writings. I have quite a few of them here. Maybe we can start with that. I also thought we could do something that will look more like a discussion than a lecture. Sometimes devotees speak – usually in a management context, but it can also be applied to spiritual culture – of “brainstorming,” by which we can share our ideas on how to become more enthusiastic. That is another idea. So let’s see what we have here.

OK, let us begin with what Śrīla Prabhupāda said about himself. Radhanath Swami said yesterday what a wonderful example of enthusiasm and determination Śrīla Prabhupāda was: he passed over every obstacle. This is a kind of definition of enthusiasm – that someone sticks to his purpose despite difficulties. I think none of us would have trouble seeing these various difficulties, both mental and physical.

There are plenty of obstacles in devotional service. But Śrīla Prabhupāda so wonderfully showed how all of them can be overcome by determination and enthusiasm. Prabhupāda says about himself:

“One should encourage people. Utsāha. Utsāha. Utsāha is a part of bhakti. First there is utsāha. Just like that boy – he has not come here, therefore there is no utsāha, enthusiasm. He should be encouraged. The basis of devotional service is utsāha. If there were no utsāha, how could a seventy-year-old man, having no prospects, come from Vṛndāvana to such a distant place as New York? The only platform on which this is possible is utsāha. Therefore utsāha is a very important quality. That means one should be encouraged in spiritual life. Utsāhān niścayād dhairyāt tat-tat-karma-pravartanāt…”
(room conversation in the āśrama, Māyāpur, 27 February 1977)

Prabhupāda describes New York as a place far away from Vṛndāvana. Nowadays we don’t consider other cities to be far away. We get on a plane, fly a few hours, and we are there. Now it’s nothing special. But at one time it was something big. Today we could compare it to flying to another planet. Especially from a spiritual point of view the distance between Vṛndāvana and New York is great. Very great. How many of you have been to Vṛndāvana? Yes, so those of you who have been there know that it’s far from New York or London.

In advanced age Prabhupāda crossed that distance. And what he accomplished certainly surpassed anyone’s expectations. Prabhupāda says that the beginning is utsāha, enthusiasm, which, as I mentioned yesterday, also means “steadiness” and “courage.”

Spiritual life requires quite a lot of courage, doesn’t it? Everyone around thinks, “Oh, what on earth is he doing?” [laughter] – family members, friends. Many of us have experienced that when we take up spiritual life, all relationships change. Friends in a sense disappear; possibly family members also disappear. That requires courage. For many people such a situation in life is unimaginable. It’s the last thing they would be able to go through. The goal of life is to surround oneself with friends, family, companions… Taking up spiritual life does not have to mean losing family or friends, but that is often how it looks, especially in the West. Spiritual life requires courage also because we are not aiming at something material. You have to have courage to strive for something whose result no one can fully predict, right? You could call it a kind of gamble. It turns out, however, that it is the best gamble. If it is a gamble, it is the surest form of gambling, because – what does Kṛṣṇa discuss with Arjuna in the Bhagavad-gītā? Arjuna says: “And what if I lose everything? Nothing will be left to me. All my efforts, the engagement of the best years of my life, and what will I have from it? Maybe nothing.” Kṛṣṇa says: “Do not worry. You will gain something. You will not lose. You will gain. If you do not obtain the full result in this life, you will get a part of it, and you are guaranteed progress from that point.”

“Well, OK,” we may say, “it’s written in a book that we accept as Vedic authority and follow faithfully. But are we following with blind faith?” No. Blind faith means… that is gambling. But we follow the authority of śāstra on the basis of intelligent understanding that actually every activity rests on faith, and therefore the Bhagavad-gītā is the most reasonable, chosen with greatest intelligence, foundation of our faith. Still, it requires courage. And courage (as I almost said already) – encouragement – it turns out that these two words are related: courage and encouragement. Besides courage we also need that “adding” of courage, encouragement. Kṛṣṇa encourages us at every step. If we read Kṛṣṇa’s words to Arjuna in this way, if in Kṛṣṇa’s words to Arjuna we look for encouragement, we will see that Kṛṣṇa is constantly doing this. He is constantly encouraging Arjuna. Even when he says (I was just thinking of this) to Arjuna:

manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu
kaścid yatati siddhaye
yatatām api siddhānāṁ
kaścin māṁ vetti tattvataḥ
(Bg. 7.3)

What does this mean?

Devotees: [inaudible]

Śrīla Kṛṣṇa Kṣetra Dāsa: …that one may strive for perfection. Ha, teamwork. Yes. This statement can be taken as very discouraging, right? “Out of thousands of men, one may endeavor for perfection.” OK. Perhaps I fit into that category. But out of thousands of those who endeavor for perfection, one may attain it. Uh-oh. But actually this statement is meant as an encouragement. It is especially easy to see in the first part. Here we are, preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness, sometimes maybe a little discouraged, thinking, “Well, we are putting so much effort into preaching, doing so much, distributing so many books… where are those thousands of devotees rushing to our doors?” Isn’t it like that? Kṛṣṇa has already told us: “Do not expect that.” He has already said, “Out of thousands…” When He says manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu – “out of sahasra, thousands” – it can mean hundreds of thousands or millions, for the next Sanskrit word is koṭi, which means “ten million.” So He says, “Out of thousands, hundreds of thousands or even millions of people, one may strive for perfection.” This means that we should not be discouraged. Kṛṣṇa has already foreseen: there will not be many people who, as we are trying to do – seriously and with conscious determination – take up spiritual life.

We can also read it differently: Out of thousands someone strives for perfection. Aha! I am one of them! Wonderful! By Kṛṣṇa’s mercy I am among those people; how wonderful. Somehow or other, by Kṛṣṇa’s mercy, I have received this chance. The next part may be heavier: yatatām api siddhānāṁ kaścin māṁ vetti tattvataḥ – “out of so many siddhas, out of so many who have attained siddha, perfection, hardly one knows Me in truth.” Who are these siddhas? Where are they? Where are those perfect souls who have not attained or not really understood Kṛṣṇa, among whom only one has succeeded? Siddha can mean different categories. Prabhupāda explains that there are different kinds of advancement, including karma, jñāna and yoga. A karmī – someone who really is a karmī, and not a vikarmī (like most Britons), but a karmī, someone who knows the principle of spiritual progress, who knows in a general sense the right direction, that is, who lives piously – is sometimes counted among the transcendentalists, those who can attain a certain kind of siddhi, some kind of perfection. Similarly jñānīs and yogīs.

So out of those who strive for perfection only one knows Me (Kṛṣṇa) in truth. So we can be happy, rejoice that somehow, by Kṛṣṇa’s mercy, we have this opportunity to understand Kṛṣṇa tattvataḥ, as He really is. Manuṣyāṇāṁ… Even in such a statement Kṛṣṇa is encouraging Arjuna, and through that He is also encouraging us. He is adding to our enthusiasm. By all means He is trying – just as by all means He tries to convince Arjuna to fulfill his service – to encourage us. “Go on, go on, go on, go on, go on… keep trying, keep trying. I know it is heavy, I know it is difficult, but keep trying.” Kṛṣṇa is always with us. He is in the heart. He speaks in this way out of compassion. There is this Sanskrit word anukampā – teṣām evānukampārtham. Anukampā; kampa literally means “trembling.” It can mean trembling out of ecstasy – every morning we sing romāñca-kampa-śru-taraṅga-bhājo. What do those words speak about?

Devotee: Tears flowing from the eyes, hairs standing on end…

Śrīla Kṛṣṇa Kṣetra Dāsa: Yes. And why? What does that song describe?

Devotee: The spiritual master is always engaged in the saṅkīrtana movement of Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu.

Śrīla Kṛṣṇa Kṣetra Dāsa: Yes. Mahāprabhoḥ kīrtana-nṛtya-gīta. Most devotees sing: Mahāprabhoḥ kīrtana–NITYA–gīta. That is all right, because that singing is also eternal, but actually the word is nṛtya, which means “dancing” – the spiritual master is always engaged in kīrtana, dancing and singing in ecstasy. Mahāprabhoḥ: “in the kīrtana of Mahāprabhu.” Mahāprabhoḥ is genitive. Mahāprabhoḥ kīrtana-nṛtya-gīta-vāditra-mādyan – in the midst of such kīrtana, romāñca… aśru, and then taraṅga aśru appears.

A moment ago I was talking with Yadad-cakṣu Prabhu from Venezuela. He was telling me about how Śrīla Prabhupāda was in the temple in Venezuela. The Deities of Gaura-Nitāi had just been installed, and Prabhupāda wanted to teach the devotees the song parama karuṇā, pahu dui-jana, nitāi gauracandra. So he came to the words parama karuṇā. He wanted the devotees… there were no instruments, he was simply chanting and they were to repeat. He said parama karuṇā, and then he was overcome with ecstasy and silent for two, three or four minutes. The devotees were astonished. Prabhupāda was unable to continue. Parama karuṇā… – he was simply filled with appreciation for the mercy of Lord Caitanya.

In any case, kampa means “trembling”; anukampā means “compassion.” So it means something like “trembling along with…” or “feeling with.” Since Kṛṣṇa is in our hearts, more than anyone else He feels together with us. I think it is very important that we remember this when sometimes we lack enthusiasm. And maybe we feel a bit bored, because after all the material energy sometimes gets the upper hand… Then the first thing we have to do is to notice: “OK, I am discouraged – so what? It is not necessarily… it is not a sin.” [laughter] We can admit to ourselves: “OK, I feel discouraged, right?” And then, at that very moment, instead of wallowing in that discouragement: “Oh, I am so discouraged, so unhappy, so frustrated, so…” – instead of drowning in that, polluting ourselves with such discouragement, we can start from something else: “OK, discouragement has appeared. And now what? How to get out of it?” And then we have to start listening to Kṛṣṇa’s encouraging words.

Perhaps we were on saṅkīrtana, distributing books, and people discouraged us greatly by saying, “No, thank you,” “I have no time,” “Get out of here! What are you doing?” – or whatever else… Discouragement. Then we have to hear words of encouragement. Kṛṣṇa is always ready to give us that opportunity. Always ready. Whether in the form of books or in our heart when we listen to Him. Just try to pray to Kṛṣṇa: “My dear Lord, please let me again become enthusiastic in Your service. Let my courage be revealed again.”

Let’s see… Yes, let’s do it this way: I will not be the only one speaking; let’s do something like a seminar, that is, when someone has something to say or any questions – just speak up immediately instead of waiting until the end of the lecture. Feel free. If not, I will read something more.

This is a passage from the fifteenth chapter of Teachings of Lord Kapila. In the margin I noted that Prabhupāda speaks here about the opposite of utsāha. I don’t remember the context; let’s try:

“Although Kṛṣṇa is the oldest of all, He always appears as a fresh youth. The words of Kṛṣṇa are as good as Kṛṣṇa Himself, for they are absolute. Bhagavad-gītā is as worshipable as Lord Kṛṣṇa Himself, for there is no difference between the sound of the holy name of the Lord and the Lord Himself. As far as the record goes, Kṛṣṇa never appears to be older than twenty years. His body is just like that of a youthful boy. Yet He is the oldest one. There is no one older than Kṛṣṇa. As stated in Brahma-saṁhitā, He is the cause of all causes.
The words spoken by Kṛṣṇa and the words spoken by Kṛṣṇa’s pure devotees are eternal. Therefore Bhagavad-gītā and the words of the devotees have been vibrating for thousands of years. For instance, the words of Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu: harer nāma harer nāma harer nāmaiva kevalam [Cc. Ādi 17.21] are still vibrating. We do not know when they were first uttered, but they continue to vibrate all over the world. Thus the Lord is called ever-fresh. No one can say, ‘These words are old and hackneyed, and therefore they cannot be applied in this time.’ Such foolishness is not appreciated by the devotees.
The words of Kṛṣṇa and the words of the pure devotees are always fresh and new. Bhagavad-gītā, for example, was spoken five thousand years ago, yet throughout the world people are still taking pleasure in reading this book. And they derive fresh pleasure every day by reading the same book. Although it has been read thousands of times, Bhagavad-gītā still gives immense pleasure. That is the meaning of spirituality. In the material world, if we repeat something once, twice, thrice or four times, ultimately it becomes hackneyed and distasteful. However, one can chant the Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra 24 hours a day and never grow tired. He will feel more and more enthusiastic. This is not a material sound like the sounds we hear on the radio. It is a spiritual sound coming from the spiritual world.”

We can ask, “Many times Prabhupāda says that we can chant Hare Kṛṣṇa twenty-four hours a day.” And sometimes he would say, “My disciples are engaged in devotional service twenty-four hours a day.” We look at ourselves and think, “That would be wonderful, but… hmm… I am not exactly engaged twenty-four hours a day. To chant twenty-four hours a day, well… [laughter] hmm… I would like to!” Yet Prabhupāda encourages us; he says this is something to strive for. It may seem impossible, but here we have an example – Śrīla Prabhupāda himself. Who doubts that he was engaged twenty-four hours a day?

In a certain sense, by dedicating our lives to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, we too are engaged twenty-four hours a day. All right, maybe we spend six hours a day sleeping, but that is sleeping for Kṛṣṇa, isn’t it? [laughter] Ah… We can think, “My dear Lord, please let me rest a little so that my body regains strength and I can serve You.” In this way rest becomes a kind of service. But if we rest the whole day, that is not service. Well, unless we are sick; that sometimes happens too – then we have to, what can be done?

Sometimes something else helps the devotees. They think, “OK, life goes on… I am engaged in devotional service.” But sometimes the mind may deviate a bit toward material life – then you can challenge yourself; we spoke a little about this this morning. You can challenge yourself; you can ask yourself questions: “Dear sir, or dear madam, what do you hope to attain by those material pursuits you are thinking about so much?” Through such “investigation” we must come to the answer: “Well, well… I was thinking… you know… I was thinking…” Then intelligence says, “Oh really?” [laughter] And very quickly you will realize that what you thought might be nice in material life is actually just another form of the ordinary and unpleasant material life. What is that verse from the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam? Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām – that we constantly chew the chewed – chewing, chewing, chewing, chewing, chewing, chewing, chewing – “Oh! Very interesting.” Chewing, chewing, chewing – “No, it is not interesting.” Material life is not exciting. It seems exciting because of the propaganda that it is so. Billboards, advertisements, brightly lit shop windows, various forms of material culture – all try to proclaim, “Oh, look how fascinating this is!” Prabhupāda reminds us: It is ordinary, it is chewing the chewed; there is nothing fascinating in it.

In this way we can challenge: “my dear mind” – a prayer to the mind. A prayer to the mind can take the form of questions: “My dear mind, what do you want to achieve? Where do you think this thought will take you? Where are you going, encouraged by lust, anger, greed, madness, illusion and envy?” And in a natural way, when someone asks himself this question, the answer will surely come, because intelligence has been awakened: “Well, you know… actually… I must admit that you are right. There is nothing there that I could really want. OK, I’m coming back to my path.”

And this is what Kṛṣṇa speaks about in the Bhagavad-gītā: śanaiḥ śanair uparamet (Bg. 6.25) – gradually, gradually the mind is brought back. In the Eleventh Canto of the Bhāgavatam there is the example of training a horse. Are there any horse trainers here? Cattle trainers, that is, ox trainers? You train oxen? Aha, so perhaps you have some experience that you cannot demand complete obedience right from the start, right? You have to give them a command and gradually, gradually encourage them with gentle words to carry it out, constantly repeating it. It is probably similar with horses; I am not sure, but that’s what I think. I am not a horse trainer. The same process is used with the mind.

Gradually, gradually we induce the mind, and one way is to ask it questions. The mind has the tendency to babble and chatter… grumble. It chatters all the time – blah blah blah blah blah. Intelligence can be awakened and ask, “My dear mind, where are you going?” And the mind has to answer, “Oh, ah… actually, well, you know, in a way I was just going to the shop around the corner…” or something like that. Then we can continue to ask: “So what do you gain by this or that?” “Well, actually I don’t gain anything.” “Then let’s go back to devotional service. Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare, Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare.” And finally we can reach the platform of serving twenty-four hours a day. What do you think? Possible? No? [laughter] Yes… maybe?!? [laughter]

OK, here we have a short comment about enthusiasm in preaching from the Second Canto of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam:

“A favorable condition for discharging devotional service is that one should be very enthusiastic in serving the Lord. The Lord in His form of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu wanted this cult of devotional service to the Lord to be preached all over the world, in every nook and corner; and therefore it is the duty of the pure devotee of the Lord to execute this order to his best ability. A devotee of the Lord must be prepared to risk everything to preach the glories of the Lord and His mission. There are many devotees of the Lord who risk their lives in the line of devotional service, and such devotees are very dear to the Lord. The Lord reveals Himself to such sincere devotees.
Every devotee should be very enthusiastic not only in performing his daily devotional service but also in trying to preach this cult peacefully by following in the footsteps of Lord Caitanya. If there appears to be some failure in his attempt, he should not be disappointed. Success or failure has no meaning for a pure devotee because he is a soldier in the field. Preaching the cult of devotional service is something like declaring war against materialistic life.” (Bhāg. 2.8.21, purport)

“SUCCESS OR FAILURE HAS NO MEANING.” For those (and this is also pleasant news) who are fully engaged in the temple, this is wonderful – especially our pūjārīs, the unseen heroes of the altar, continuing their service day after day, a service that is not glorified as much as preaching. But those who are in the temple may think, “How can I be engaged in preaching? Perhaps by preaching to the guests who come to our temple, or perhaps by slipping out for a few hours once a week to distribute books, or perhaps by running a program – meeting people, visiting them. What to do to preach Kṛṣṇa consciousness? OK, I am performing my service, I am doing what Prabhupāda calls ‘the daily rituals,’ but what about preaching?” So many devotees have the experience that when they preach, they become enthusiastic, don’t they? Have you experienced that? Yes, no, sometimes… [laughter]. Yes, practically always when you preach you feel, “Yes, I am doing this for Lord Caitanya, for my spiritual master, for the devotees; I am giving myself.” And enthusiasm comes. Now I would like to hear something from you. What realizations do you have about how to be enthusiastic and overcome discouragement?

Devotee: [inaudible]

Śrīla Kṛṣṇa Kṣetra Dāsa: Aha. Well, first of all, the very fact that you are able to ask yourself such questions indicates that you have some faith other than faith in material life. If there were no such faith, you would not even have these questions, and you would not challenge yourself. The absence of such questions and challenges is the standard way of thinking for most people. Most of them do not consider the possibility of spiritual life at all, right? The fact that such questions appear means that there is faith – that is the beginning.

I want to hear more from you. Can someone answer this point, what is the relationship between faith and asking yourself about material life?

Devotee: [inaudible]

Śrīla Kṛṣṇa Kṣetra Dāsa: The experience of the miseries that material life brings, yes… Anything else? Śrīnivāsa?

Devotee: [inaudible]

Śrīla Kṛṣṇa Kṣetra Dāsa: The test of a dish is its taste? Yes.

Devotee: Yes. He is hungry [inaudible] food. Eating when hunger disappears. So when someone makes spiritual advancement, he will know…

Devotee: When you spoke about discouragement…

Śrīla Kṛṣṇa Kṣetra Dāsa: Yes.

Devotee: …we just always think, I mean… hundreds and thousands of times… we are encouraged, and still discouraged. So… in connection with that discouragement…

Śrīla Kṛṣṇa Kṣetra Dāsa: …how at that moment to regain faith… activate it.

Devotee: Yes, or one can be helped…

Śrīla Kṛṣṇa Kṣetra Dāsa: Hmm, yes… any thoughts? Yes.

Devotee: Whenever difficulties come, or I get discouraged… one has to more intensely take shelter of this process – that is the best medicine. To hear more… force oneself to put on a lecture… or… try to… but usually… forcing oneself, when…

Śrīla Kṛṣṇa Kṣetra Dāsa: Yes, Radhanath Swami spoke about this yesterday evening; he quoted Prabhupāda. Someone asked how to be enthusiastic, and he said, “Act in an enthusiastic way.” And that is because enthusiasm is the nature of the soul… this was explained very nicely; I don’t know, I think it came from Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura.

Prahlādānanda Swami explained how these three factors – enthusiasm, conviction and patience – are three qualities of the soul which are parallel to sat, cit, ānanda, but in reverse order. Ānanda is the nature of the soul in the form of fullness of happiness. Therefore the soul is by nature enthusiastic. Similarly it is full of knowledge; therefore it is fully convinced. The soul is also sat, eternal, so by nature it is patient. In a sense the soul can wait eternally for Kṛṣṇa. As we have already heard, Mukunda Datta said, “Ah! In ten million births I will see Lord Caitanya again! Wonderful!” And Lord Caitanya said, “All right, let him in.” [laughter]

The same principle is here: “OK, I will try to be enthusiastic. Hare Kṛṣṇa.” You know, it is somewhat like… in a sense like… putting the training wheels back on the bicycle.

Devotee: It happens to me that I am discouraged, and… I ask myself, “Why am I discouraged?” It turns out that it is because the results are not as I expected, and I turn to Kṛṣṇa with that. What is the ultimate cause? – you think you are the controller. “I wanted to distribute 100 books, I distributed 5…” I say then, “OK, I am just wasting time… maybe any books at all…” or “Please, I’ve had enough, please help me, give me enthusiasm…” Then He sends some nice person, and afterwards… the distributor is so… We get discouraged because we become attached to the results. If you know that you are not the controller, that Kṛṣṇa is the controller, and you are humble, if you want, He will immediately remove the discouragement. And sometimes it helps: “Those who desire results…”

Śrīla Kṛṣṇa Kṣetra Dāsa: [laughter] “Kṛṣṇa, I have spent the whole day here and have distributed only five books! Are You going to do something about it?”

Devotee: [inaudible]

Śrīla Kṛṣṇa Kṣetra Dāsa: Yes, that is very good. Yes, I mentioned yesterday how I myself was learning by observing Bhakti Tīrtha Swami, as you may remember. “OK, I am here because somehow Kṛṣṇa wants me to be in this situation. This is what He wants…” I did not mention that this can be seen in two ways. First: “Kṛṣṇa has deliberately placed me here so that I may perform some service, achieve something – maybe I am to distribute books to some specific conditioned souls, and one never knows what the result will be.” But on the other hand, Kṛṣṇa may have another purpose in creating such a situation, and this applies especially to the temple; He may be… [break]… so that you will finally open yourself to Kṛṣṇa and let Him solve this problem.

I also thought of something else in connection with faith, when you have some problems… generally this really helps. You have to remember… actually two things: first, remember the devotees whom we know and whom we always remember as enthusiastic. I think we all know such devotees, right? And when you think of such devotees, you also think of their enthusiasm. Then surely that mood will rub off on you; you will think, “Yes, indeed…” Another way to be enthusiastic is to remember… sometimes we think, “Oh, I have such a problem…” Sometimes we start to create a list of dirt in our mind: “Oh, I have such a problem, and such a problem, and such a problem, and what’s more I have yet another problem, and if you would like more – I have ten more – this one, that one, that one, that one, that one, that one, that one, that one… and there is always still THIS problem.” [laughter]

A few days ago I was talking with Hṛdayānanda Gosvāmī. We were talking about another devotee’s problem. I was trying to help. And he said, “You know, we think we have problems,” and he pulled out a small book. It was the second part of the travel diaries of His Holiness Indradyumna Swami. I don’t know if you have seen it. He wrote two small books about travels in Russia, and recently also in South Africa, where he had a very serious accident; he was in the hospital for some time… Hṛdayānanda Mahārāja had just read this little book. One of the sections describes how devotees were distributing food in one of those parts of the world in the south of the CIS, where there is war, where danger lurks at every step. Bombs are flying, everything is exploding, people are dying left and right – a terrifying sight. Mahārāja said, “You know, we think we have problems. Just read this book and you will understand that you have no problems.” [laughter]

Sometimes the mind chases us a bit: “Ah, because this, ah, because that,” but… This again relates to the vision of pure devotees who have compassion for conditioned souls; they see, “Oh, what horrible conditions – all the conditioned souls are suffering from repeated birth and death.” They see this. And we hear the urgent words of Śrīla Prabhupāda: “You are suffering from repeated birth and death. You must get out of this.” From his platform he sees how dangerous material life is. We can remind ourselves of this fact, of this real situation, and through that remember: “Well, you know… compared to others we have no problems. We don’t have any big problems.” And then you are able to deal with it quickly and move on, continue devotional service and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare, Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare.

What does Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura say? Sukhe duḥkhe bhulo nā’ko, vadane hari-nāma bolo re: whether you are happy or unhappy, always chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare, Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. Sometimes we may think, “Oh, I don’t feel very good, so I will not chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.” Hmm, Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura says that it is precisely then that we should chant. Chant, but of course chant in the mood of prayer: “OK, here I am… I am depressed… Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare, Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare.”

We can also remember how happy Kṛṣṇa is. Sometimes we forget that. Kṛṣṇa is on the altar; He is always smiling, isn’t He? Not here, but you can go to Soho Street and you will see Lord Jagannātha… Have you ever seen Him with furrowed brows? [laughter] He is always smiling. Yes, if you really feel depressed, go to the city. When was the last time you were on Soho Street and saw Lord Jagannātha? Huge smiles. Hmm, what else? Any other suggestions? Yes.

Devotee: I have experienced that when I have problems in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, only… sādhu-saṅga…

Śrīla Kṛṣṇa Kṣetra Dāsa: …when what?

Devotee: Sādhu-saṅga, the association of devotees… association is something special for me… Kṛṣṇa is, of course, very merciful to me, giving me the chance to be in the association of more advanced persons… Then spiritual strength increases. That really gives me… prayer to continue in the most difficult moments. I remember… sādhu-saṅga is powerful… For me it is the most important.

Śrīla Kṛṣṇa Kṣetra Dāsa: Yes, that is very important. Yes, we always want to be in the association of devotees, which does not mean that we must always, twenty-four hours a day, be surrounded by people. Sometimes that could be a bit disturbing. We sometimes need a little space for ourselves. But let us not enlarge that space so much that we lose the association of devotees. We always want to return to the association of devotees, to renew our energy and give it to others.

Devotee: A big problem arises when enthusiasm directed toward Kṛṣṇa destroys the marital relationship. Should one cool down the enthusiasm according to the situation?

Śrīla Kṛṣṇa Kṣetra Dāsa: I would not say that one should cool down enthusiasm, but perhaps one has to find a way to be enthusiastic without harming the marriage. How to do that – that is not my field, I am sorry… [laughter]. You have to talk with gṛhasthas. We often hear about this problem, especially in Eastern Europe. Someone comes to the temple, falls in love with devotional service, and then it turns out that the husband or wife does not want to have anything to do with it. And “Ah, what are we going to do now?” This can be a big problem, but one should not cool down one’s enthusiasm; perhaps one should think carefully about how to use it in one’s relationship with one’s partner.

In other words, your enthusiasm should be such that your partner does not interpret it as a kind of threat. I think that is a big problem. Sometimes – not necessarily in your case, but sometimes new devotees become very enthusiastic and do not know how… they do not notice that their enthusiasm may be a threat to others with whom they are somehow connected. They cannot understand that they cannot push other people.

You know, they say, “Kṛṣṇa consciousness is so wonderful. Why doesn’t everyone immediately understand it as I do?” But others usually don’t understand. You have to make an effort to understand that the other person does not understand. That is not simple. But no, I would not say that you must cool down your enthusiasm. Rather, I would say that you should consider how you present it so that others do not feel threatened. Yes.

Devotee: [inaudible]

Śrīla Kṛṣṇa Kṣetra Dāsa: Yes, sometimes Kṛṣṇa arranges a situation in which He separates you from the devotees, and then… then you will really be able to appreciate. A few months ago I moved to Berkeley to start school there. We tried to decide where I could live, and we came to the conclusion: Well, I cannot live in the temple because there is not enough space; I would not get a separate room, and since I have to study a lot I must have my own room. Even if I had my own room, the walls are too thin, so obviously I would hear everything that is happening on the other side and… no. So I rented an apartment. Three blocks from the temple. It was a studio. It was the first time in twenty-five years that I had lived alone. [laughter] I had always lived in a temple. I lasted one week. [laughter] Partly because I felt strange in that situation, but also because I had strange neighbors. Ah yes, the neighbors were really strange… the walls were thin. [laughter] It was complete ignorance. I woke up around two in the morning hearing some crazy noises from behind the wall and immediately went to the temple. I was in the temple chanting japa. [laughter] “Kṛṣṇa, save me!” It turned out to be a wonderful arrangement of Kṛṣṇa. I now live both in the temple and outside it. I live on the parking lot in front of the temple, in a trailer. It is very quiet there, but not far to the temple.

However, I remember many years ago… I was with the devotees in Holland on traveling saṅkīrtana, and the saṅkīrtana leader had a brilliant idea: “Let’s go to England and distribute books! And we will not tell the devotees in England.” [laughter] Well, it sounded exciting because on the one hand it meant that every day we could eat double English cream in the morning; we would eat all that fatty cream… I mean… all sorts of… we don’t need that anymore, right? Anyway, we came to England and one catastrophe followed another. We were in Manchester and distributing on the street. I don’t remember what happened to the other devotees, but suddenly, without any warning, I felt a heavy hand on my shoulder and heard the words of a policeman: “I told you to get out of here and stop selling books,” or something like that. He must have mistaken me for someone else, because neither he nor anyone else had ever said anything like that to me. In any case I could not do anything; I had to go with him to the station and spent the night in jail. During that one night in jail I felt separation from the devotees very strongly, because when you are there you do not know how long you will stay. It was only one day, but still, it was nice to come back to the devotees; I appreciated their association more. Yes, it was funny. The same was once in Rotterdam.

NOTE OF THE TRANSCRIBER: Unfortunately the words of the assembled devotees are very unclear, and therefore in many places we have had to omit them.