DEITY WORSHIP SEMINAR
Śrīdhāma Māyāpura
02-03-1993
Śrī Śrī Rādhā-Mādhava ki jaya!
I was inspired by Jayadvaita Swami's class this morning in many ways, both by form and contents. I mean by that, aside from what he spoke I was also inspired by his way of speaking very briefly and then asking for questions. And I'm thinking that's probably the best way to conduct this seminar, because I suspect that many of you have questions. Some may be very particular, some may be more general, and it may not be so valuable for me to go on and on about a subject which is as vast as the philosophy of Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
But I would like to start with a nice quote from Śrīla Prabhupāda from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, where Prabhupāda explains what is the proper understanding of the Deity form of the Lord, and then there's one story about a very wonderful Vaiṣṇava, Narahari Cakravartī Ṭhākura, in our line of disciplic succession, that I want to tell about. And then we'll talk a little bit about Deity worship in ISKCON — past, present & future, and then I think we'll open it up for questions.
First I want to read this quote from the Third Canto of Bhāgavatam, Chapter 25, Text 35, purport, which we are including in this book which we are now in the process of compiling on Deity worship — this, by the way, is the present condition, the present form of the Deity worship book, still avyakta… semi-vyakta form. We will explain a little more about this book later.
So, Prabhupāda says:
“Māyāvādīs and atheists accept the forms of the Deities in the temple of the Lord as idols, but devotees do not worship idols. They directly worship the Personality of Godhead in His arcā incarnation. Arcā refers to the form which we can worship in our present condition. Actually, in our present state it is not possible to see God in His spiritual form because our material eyes and senses cannot conceive of a spiritual form. We cannot even see the spiritual form of the individual soul. When a man dies we cannot see how the spiritual form leaves the body. That is the defect of our material senses. In order to be seen by our material senses, the Supreme Personality of Godhead accepts a favorable form which is called arcā-vigraha. This arcā-vigraha, sometimes called the arcā incarnation, is not different from Him. Just as the Supreme Personality of Godhead accepts various incarnations, He takes on forms made out of matter — clay, wood, metal and jewels.
“There are many śāstric injunctions which give instructions for carving forms of the Lord. These forms are not material. If God is all-pervading, then He is also in the material elements. There is no doubt about it. But the atheists think otherwise. Although they preach that everything is God, when they go to the temple and see the form of the Lord, they deny that He is God. According to their own theory, everything is God. Then why is the Deity not God? Actually, they have no conception of God. The devotees’ vision, however, is different; their vision is smeared with love of God. As soon as they see the Lord in His different forms, the devotees become saturated with love, for they do not find any difference between the Lord and His form in the temple, as do the atheists. The smiling face of the Deity in the temple is beheld by the devotees as transcendental and spiritual, and the decoration of the body of the Lord is very much appreciated by the devotees.
“It is the duty of the spiritual master to teach how to decorate the Deity in the temple, how to cleanse the temple and how to worship the Deity. There are different procedures and rules and regulations which are followed in the temples of Viṣṇu, and devotees go there and see the Deity, the vigraha, and spiritually enjoy the form because all of the Deities are benevolent. The devotees express their minds before the Deity, and in many instances the Deity also gives answers. But one must be a very elevated devotee in order to be able to speak with the Supreme Lord. Sometimes the Lord informs the devotee through dreams. These exchanges of feelings between the Deity and the devotee are not understandable by atheists, but actually the devotee enjoys them. Kapila Muni is explaining how the devotees see the decorated body and face of the Deity and how they speak with Him in devotional service.”
So this purport by Śrīla Prabhupāda is a very nice summary of the whole philosophy, the whole understanding of Kṛṣṇa consciousness in the process of Deity worship, arcana. So we know that arcana is one of the nine processes of devotional service:
śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇaṁ pāda-sevanam
arcanaṁ vandanaṁ dāsyaṁ sakhyam ātma-nivedanam
We know that śravaṇam and kīrtanam, hearing and chanting, are the most essential types of devotional activities. Without hearing and chanting there's no question of being successful in the other processes of devotional service. At the same time, the other processes are there, and we perform, more or less in the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, all of these processes.
In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam we have the description of Lord Caitanya's appearance:
kṛṣṇa-varṇaṁ tviṣākṛṣṇaṁ
sāṅgopāṅgāstra-pārṣadam
yajñaiḥ saṅkīrtana-prāyair
yajanti hi su-medhasaḥ
That intelligent persons in this age will worship the Supreme Lord, who is appearing in this age as Lord Caitanya, primarily by the process of saṅkīrtana. The word prāyair is used, meaning primarily, not exclusively.
In the Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇava tradition we find that Lord Caitanya and His associates were all worshipping Kṛṣṇa not only by chanting the holy name, but also by worshipping the Deity. There are many Deities of Kṛṣṇa which are around Bengal and other places, East Bengal, that were worshipped by associates of Lord Caitanya. The chanting of the holy name is essential for properly worshipping the Deity. These two things actually go together: realizing that the holy name and Kṛṣṇa are nondifferent, and realizing that Kṛṣṇa's arcā-vigraha and Kṛṣṇa are nondifferent. These two developments of our understanding actually go hand in hand.
We know that name, form, qualities, pastimes, paraphernalia of Kṛṣṇa are one — abhinnatvān nāma-nāminoḥ, we heard this morning. The name and the possessor of the name are nondifferent. So in a similar way, Kṛṣṇa and His arcā-vigraha form are nondifferent. We know that the holy name is sometimes referred to as Nāma Prabhu. You have heard this expression before? Nāma Prabhu, the Name-Master — the Lord, who is our Master, who is appearing in the form of the holy name.
So Kṛṣṇa is appearing in different forms; in any form that He appears He is our Master. Particularly in His form as arcā-vigraha, we get two opportunities: one is to see Kṛṣṇa with our material eyes and thus be attracted to Kṛṣṇa's transcendental form, and the other is that we get to serve Kṛṣṇa in so many activities with all of our senses. All of our senses including the mind.
Now this brings me to this nice story about Narahari Cakravartī Ṭhākura. We often hear how Kṛṣṇa consciousness is a cultivation, it is a matter of cultivation, Śrīla Prabhupāda explains in The Nectar of Devotion. So it's very nice to hear how Narahari Cakravartī Ṭhākura, who incidentally wrote a very famous book, the Bhakti-ratnākara, which is a kind of Vaiṣṇava history book from the eighteenth century…
Narahari Cakravartī Ṭhākura was a very advanced devotee following in the line of Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura. It seems that one day he was meditating on how Kṛṣṇa wanted to appear as Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. That's also described briefly in Caitanya-caritāmṛta by Kṛṣṇadāsa Kavirāja Gosvāmī. Narahari Cakravartī Ṭhākura was seeing Kṛṣṇa considering how He wanted to appear as Lord Caitanya and discussing with Śrīmatī Rādhārāṇī. Śrīmatī Rādhārāṇī was arguing with Kṛṣṇa why He should perhaps not do this. It seems that Lalitā-devī was also involved in the discussion; there was quite a lively discussion on the subject.
At one point Narahari Cakravartī Ṭhākura, in his meditation, saw Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa suddenly become one in the person of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. When he saw that, he became overwhelmed in ecstasy, rolled on the ground unconscious — completely overwhelmed at seeing Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu and actually witnessing how Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa become one:
rādhā-kṛṣṇa-prāṇaya-vikṛtir hlādinī-śaktir asmāt
So devotees recognized that Narahari Cakravartī Ṭhākura was a very advanced devotee, and they encouraged him to take up service of Govindadeva, the Deity established or rediscovered by Rūpa Gosvāmī in Vṛndāvana some decades before. They took Narahari to the Govinda temple and all of the assembled devotees prayed to Govinda to please accept this Narahari Cakravartī and please allow him to be engaged in Your service. At that moment the flower garland which was hanging around the neck of Govindadeva fell down, and the devotees immediately recognized that this flower garland was a blessing for Narahari Cakravartī Ṭhākura — “Yes, let him be engaged in My service.” So the devotees were chanting “Haribol, Haribol” in great ecstasy, and they took the garland from Govinda and they hung it around the neck of Narahari.
Narahari Cakravartī Ṭhākura felt himself highly unqualified to worship Govindadeva. And therefore he would engage in various services keeping himself at a distance from the Deity. Although the pūjārīs would encourage him to perform direct services, dressing the Deity and so on, he felt he was not qualified. Rather, he would do other services, menial services, like cleaning the temple room, picking tulasī, rubbing sandalwood paste. And many other services. It is described that he was doing so much service, it was like one person was doing the service of ten.
He would do all these menial services, but he would also do service in his mind. It is described that one night he lay down to rest, and while he was resting he was meditating on cooking for Govindadeva. He was cooking a whole meal. Everything was there: khičrī, sweet rice, chapātīs, subjis; all the different preparations he was cooking in his mind. And then, after he completed the cooking, he would prepare the offering, all in his mind, and he would bring it to Govindadeva, and he would offer each preparation to Lord Govinda.
And in his dream he would see that Govinda was laughing. He was smiling and laughing, and He was taking the offering, and then He was joking with Narahari. He said: “Narahari, you are cooking so nicely — in your mind. You are cooking so nicely, I have to accept it!” Narahari was absorbed in this way, seeing how Govindadeva was enjoying, being pleased by his offering.
So this was going on in Vṛndāvana. At the same time in Jaipur, the king of Jaipur was also sleeping. Govindadeva appeared to him in the dream and said, “My dear rāja, you really should go to Vṛndāvana. You should go to Vṛndāvana and see Me there, worship Me there, and take My prasādam. There is such nice prasādam which is cooked for Me. You will like it too much. So you should come with your family.” So the rāja was very surprised, he woke up… When he woke up, right in front of him was a golden plate, a complete plate, thālī, with all preparations, prasādam from Govindadeva. He understood this is actually the prasādam from Govinda. Somehow it had manifested.
So he got out of bed, he woke up all his family members, woke up the whole clan — rājpūt means big family — woke everybody up, and in the middle of the night, or early morning, I don't know, they had a big feast on little bits of mahā-prasādam. And it tasted so ecstatic, they were all overwhelmed in ecstasy, and then the rāja explained what had happened: he had just had a dream and Govindadeva had invited him to come to Vṛndāvana and this is His prasādam. So they said, “Well, yes, we have to go, let us go immediately!” So they packed up, they went to Vṛndāvana…
Govinda had explained to the rāja that Narahari Cakravartī Ṭhākura had been cooking for Him in his mind. So when they came to Vṛndāvana, came and saw Govindadeva, they offered obeisances, and then the king was calling out: “Where is Narahari? Narahari, where are you?” So Narahari Cakravartī Ṭhākura was staying on the side, he was feeling very meek, not wanting to draw any attention to himself. Everyone was calling, “Where is Narahari?”, he appeared finally, and then the rāja explained what had happened in his dream — that he had been told by Govindadeva Himself Narahari had been cooking for Govinda. The local pūjārīs said: “Narahari? He never cooks for the Deities.” Then he explained: “No, he does cook for the Deities. He cooks for Govinda and Govinda is always accepting his offering. He is cooking in his mind, but that offering that he was cooking in his mind had manifested in Jaipur and I have eaten. And that mahā-prasād is so wonderful, you cannot imagine.”
All the pūjārīs, all the residents of Vṛndāvana were saying: “Really? We didn't know about this!” Then they forced Narahari: “You go in the kitchen and you cook immediately for Govindadeva.” The word spread very quickly, the residents of Rādhā-kuṇḍa and Govardhana all came, and the feast was offered to Govindadeva, and then everyone had the prasād, this big feast, cooked by Narahari Cakravartī Ṭhākura. He became known as rasūiyā-pūjārī. Rasūiyā means very expert cook.
So, Narahari Cakravartī Ṭhākura was a very expert cook and he pleased the Lord by his very devotional cooking which was initially in his mind. Later on, he was encouraged by Govindadeva to compile books describing the history of the Vaiṣṇavas. He is famous now especially for his Bhakti-ratnākara, describing the pastimes of Lord Caitanya's associates. Lesser known is that he was actually a very great pūjārī. And his greatness was appreciated particularly by the residents of Vṛndāvana, because he was so humble and so unassuming.
This service of worshipping the Deity is actually very glorious, but it is rarely appreciated. In our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, it is not so much appreciated because it is not recognized as being direct preaching. Actually — of course, sometimes it is explained like that. Śrīla Prabhupāda also said, someone who is less advanced, he should stay back in the temple and ring the bell if he cannot go out and preach. It is a fact that direct preaching, going on the battlefront, facing the non-devotees, is certainly in all respects obviously most glorious.
But there are some unsung heroes in our society: many pūjārīs throughout our society, many of them — many of you — who have been doing Deity worship for so many years, in this way actually holding our society together in a very concrete way. Some years ago, as some of you know, there were so many disturbances in our society, sometimes there was anxiety that the society may break apart in different ways. So we saw that actually what held our society together, and what holds us together more than anything — together with the instructions of Śrīla Prabhupāda, part of those instructions being how to worship Kṛṣṇa — is our Deity worship.
Imagine if Kṛṣṇa, the Deities of Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa, Lord Jagannātha, Śrī Śrī Gaura-Nitāi were not there in our temples! We cannot imagine, because — what is ISKCON, what is Kṛṣṇa consciousness without worshipping Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa, worshipping Gaura-Nitāi, Lord Jagannātha? It is not imaginable. Śrīla Prabhupāda had this wonderfully complete vision of establishing all aspects of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, taking the risk — he sometimes called it a risk — of having Western devotees engaged in Deity worship. But we see that by this vision of Śrīla Prabhupāda, Deity worship is going on throughout our society.
In many respects, considering so many of the difficulties that our society still faces, in many respects Deity worship is going on very nicely. It was pointed out in one of the talks during the GBC meeting by Jayapatākā Swami, we had a kind of brainstorming session in the GBC meeting about how to increase preaching, and the question which he first posed was: “What is it, what are some of the things which attract people to our movement? What are some of the positive things about our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement which people like?” And the first point that came up was our Deity worship. People are very much attracted, very much impressed by the opulent Deity worship.
Deity worship has its function which goes together, is very much integral to our mission of spreading Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We go out with books, we go out with the holy name, we go out with prasādam to bring people in contact with Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Our intention is, at some point they come closer to the association of devotees, and what is at the center of the association of devotees? Kṛṣṇa. And where is Kṛṣṇa? Kṛṣṇa is in His temple.
So, we are always endeavoring in that direction, to go out and bring people — where? — to the temple. When they come to the temple, what do they see? Rather, who do they see? They see Kṛṣṇa. So, one aspect of our Deity worship, a very essential aspect of our Deity worship, is actually preaching. And the other essential aspect of Deity worship is our personal development of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We just read… We were reading in this purport, Śrīla Prabhupāda is describing how Kṛṣṇa is so kindly appearing before the devotees in His arcā-vigraha form so that we can see Him, so that we can engage in His service and gradually come to this point of understanding Kṛṣṇa's personal form, understanding that Kṛṣṇa is present, being able to actually speak to Kṛṣṇa and — as Prabhupāda said — hear His response. For this purpose, we could say, the whole arcana process is there.
But the whole arcana is not an artificial process; rather it is the same activities which are going on in the spiritual world. We see on the altar Rādhā-Mādhava and the sakhīs. What are the sakhīs doing? Actually — yes, they are worshipping Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa. They are holding cāmaras, offering betel, offering flower garlands. So, what is going on in Goloka Vṛndāvana, we are also training up to do those things which actually we should, in our natural position of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, pure Kṛṣṇa consciousness, be able to do very naturally, spontaneously.
In order to do that, so many rules and regulations are there. These days, I should say for these last weeks, months or even years, practically whenever I meet devotees, they say: “When is the book coming out?” So, my answer is: “Which book?” We plan to make so many books. We are in the process of making one book which is almost completed, just now coming. It's about daily Deity worship. It is dealing with a lot of rules and regulations and standards. Everyone is asking this question because everyone is very anxious: “What are the standards? What is the proper standard for us to follow?” And of course, what is behind this interest to know the standards? The interest is to know, how can we properly satisfy Kṛṣṇa in our Deity worship.
How we can properly satisfy Kṛṣṇa in our Deity worship is essentially explained fully by Śrīla Prabhupāda in his books and also in his letters. This purport, within three paragraphs, Prabhupāda is explaining quite completely and quite essentially how we can satisfy Kṛṣṇa by Deity worship. But how to actually do everything properly so that Kṛṣṇa will be satisfied? That is why this compilation of rules and regulations is going on.
Now we have put in this Deity worship book, in the introduction, one little paragraph saying that this book is not a “Do-It-Yourself” manual. This is the age of “Do-It-Yourself” manuals: “Teach Yourself Sanskrit”, “Teach Yourself This”, “Teach Yourself That”. But Deity worship is not a “teach yourself” process. Why? Because we are worshipping Kṛṣṇa. How do we know how to worship Kṛṣṇa except by the direction of the spiritual master?
śrī-vigrahārādhana-nitya-nānā-
śṛṅgāra-tan-maṇḍira-mārjanādau
yuktasya bhaktāṁś ca niyuñjato 'pi
vande guroḥ śrī-caraṇāravindam
The spiritual master teaches us how to worship Kṛṣṇa. The spiritual master may directly teach us or he may designate someone to show us. In any case, the principle is there. Śrīla Prabhupāda has taught all of us Deity worship, the principles of Deity worship and many details. Some things which were not explained directly by him, he told, “Find out from that person, find out from that temple.” These are details. Rūpa Gosvāmī says, there are principles and details, and Prabhupāda was mainly concerned with principles. This book that we are coming out with, it is more details. But it is not meant that we become distracted from the principles.
A misconception that some devotees have is, “Prabhupāda gave us very simple Deity worship, actually he admitted he doesn't know so much about it, so now we are going to start learning something more advanced.” That is a mistaken idea. Prabhupāda was teaching the most advanced worship! We often give the example of when Prabhupāda would, in 26 Second Avenue, ring a little bell and offer incense to a picture of Pañca-tattva and his spiritual master. Very simple. He would chant the maṅgalācaraṇa prayers. Devotees called it “bells”, because they didn't know what else — didn't know it is ārati or anything. So they called it “bells”. That worship was topmost uttama-adhikārī seva, worship of Kṛṣṇa in arcana. If we can come to that platform in our worship, that is certainly our perfection of Deity worship.
But to come to that platform, again — so many regulations are there:
smartavyaḥ satataṁ viṣṇur
vismartavyo na jātu cit
sarve vidhi-niṣedhāḥ syur
etayor eva kiṅkarāḥ
So many rules and regulations are there. What are they? They are kiṅkarāḥ, they are servants of two principles. What are these two principles? Always remember Kṛṣṇa and never forget Kṛṣṇa. This is what Prabhupāda says in this purport.
OK, so these are a few brief and general remarks. As I said, I wanted to keep to Jayadvaita Swami's form — you came a little late, I said I was impressed by Jayadvaita Swami's form and content of his lecture this morning. The form was very brief, and then he asked for questions. The content was completely ecstatic, of course. So actually I'd like to stop now and just ask for questions. It doesn't matter how particular or how general it is.
I also wanted to suggest that this is a scheduled seminar. It is the only scheduled seminar. If some of you are interested, we can unofficially schedule a further seminar, if you want to get right down to the specific details of how to do so many things. In one sense, though, I tend to say with many questions, “Please wait until the book comes out, it's all explained in the book”, but this sounds like the opposite of what I just said, namely we need also instruction.
Which brings me to one final point I wanted to make, and that is that along with the book, we also want to develop a systematic training program for pūjārīs in ISKCON; full time as well as part time as well as whatever classification of pūjārīs. We were planning to have — we apologize for not actually doing it, to those who may have gone to Vṛndāvana Institute in January — we were planning to do an Institute seminar. We didn't do it because we were originally expecting to have this book as our textbook; it was still not ready. I thought, well, one month of teaching in Vṛndāvana means one month of not working on the book, so the whole society waits for the book, and if a few are waiting in Vṛndāvana… better I work on the book.
It's quite probable we'll have a seminar in Vṛndāvana next January, and if we don't have the book ready by then, then someone else should take over for me and get this book done… I'm just not qualified to do it if it's not done by then. We are also developing something in Europe, there's a group of devotees who have had a few meetings in London to develop a whole scheme for long-term higher education of devotees in three areas: preaching, management and pūjā — or we can say priestly activities. That's something which will come in the form of very specific courses, which will go together with service. The idea is that one will not have to completely stop his service, at least not for long periods of time, and that service and education can go on together. And there is an idea that there should be some form of awarding of diplomas. Of course that is also being developed in śāstric degrees, Bhakti-śāstrī, Bhakti-vaibhava, Bhakti-vedānta, Bhakti-sarvabhauma; that is already manifesting — the Bhakti-śāstrī programme already exists. The long sight of that is to have a long-term training for devotees in these three areas of devotional activities. Eventually they want to have also other “devotional vocational training”. Those ideas are there.
Alright. You had a question?
Question: ...(indist)...
Krishna Kshetra Swami: What do we do if we have had a standard of worship — I'll make it a little more general — if we've had a standard of worship for Deities and we find we can't maintain it? (break)
(tape 2)
Krishna Kshetra Swami: Maybe someone has a question for Bhanu Swami...
Question: ...(indist)...
Krishna Kshetra Swami: Oh yes. If you didn't hear, Caitanya Maṅgala is just mentioning this pūjārī at Champāhaṭṭi we met on parikramā. He was ordered by Śrīla Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura to take care of the Deities, Lord Caitanya and Gadādhara — Gaḍāi-Gaurāṅga. He is still doing it, after 65 years. That is called taking the order of the spiritual master as one's life and soul.
That brings us to your question again: what is the special qualification for a pūjārī? The special qualification is — it's not special, it's the qualification of any devotee: take the orders of your spiritual master as your life and soul. If he gives the order to worship the Deity, take that as your life and soul. If he gives the order: worship the Deity, go out on saṅkīrtana, cook, make life members, do all of these things — take that as your life and soul. Do all these things.
Question: ...(indist)...
Krishna Kshetra Swami: This sounds like a question for you, Mahārāja. Is there a boundary, is there a limit to Kṛṣṇa's mercy in His Deity form for those who are having difficulty in their following principles?
Bhanu Swami: Well, Kṛṣṇa says that if we cannot follow the principles of dharma, or the four regulative principles, or chanting sixteen rounds, or whatever the spiritual master gives to us, that means the attraction to the material energy is still very strong. And actually the point of initiation — that is the point at which we choose to… we choose Kṛṣṇa over the material energy. That's real initiation, when we choose the spiritual world rather than the material world.
So, if we have a lot of difficulties because of the material energy, that is not a very good symptom actually. But of course Kṛṣṇa says anyone can approach Me. Through the process of bhakti, sādhana-bhakti, we can gradually purify ourselves. We may not be qualified in the beginning, but through the process of devotional service we can come to a high, high level.
Deity worship is part of this process. We may not be very qualified for Deity worship — of course, we may be initiated or second-initiated as far as formalities are concerned, but we still may make mistakes and so on — but the process itself should be purifying for us.
But the point of Deity worship is: there's a kind of minimum standard you have to follow to do it. And if you don't follow that standard, it becomes offensive, so you don't progress — you go the other way. There has to be a minimum standard for Deity worship, real Deity worship, otherwise it's not beneficial for you.
That is why we insist on — or Prabhupāda insisted on — you should have second initiation for Deity worship, to come up to a certain standard. Below that standard, then we shouldn't advise that one does Deity worship in that case. Stick to the chanting of the holy name and try to chant without offense until one becomes purified. So that is how we get the mercy of Kṛṣṇa in that case.
Deity worship is a little special — there has to be some qualification. Chanting of the holy name — no qualification as such. Faith is necessary, of course, for effective chanting, but in Deity worship there are some particular qualifications, and if we don't follow, if we don't have such qualifications, then we won't get the result.
That is why actually Deity worship is not the yuga-dharma. Chanting of the holy name is — because not many people are qualified to begin with in Kali-yuga. So we can't say “Everyone go and worship the Deity”, because they can't; that would be an offense.
And with the holy name, we may not follow all the other things so perfectly, but if we have a little faith we can start chanting and purify ourselves gradually. Then, at a certain stage, we can come up to the qualification for Deity worship also. Then we can do Deity worship and by doing that sādhana we can also progress.
So we can say there is a sort of limitation on Kṛṣṇa's mercy — or at least, not a limitation, because Kṛṣṇa is unlimited and He is not following any rules — but the process of Deity worship as a process of bhakti is such that Kṛṣṇa will give that mercy if you come up to the qualification. If you don't, then we'll have to put a question mark there — it may not be so good to do Deity worship.
Question: Prabhupāda said that we should make — especially gṛhasthas — they should make their home into a temple. So we have to encourage those gṛhasthas who want to advance to have some Deity to come. What is the meaning to inform them that they need to have Deities to turn their home into a temple?
Bhanu Swami: Well, if you want to really do it according to the śāstra, then you have to install your Deities, and then you should have some minimum standard which is an authorized standard, according to, let's say, your… (---) or the local GBC or whatever. But it has to be some sort of standard — not sort of whimsical that one day you wake up late and another day you wake up early, another day you bathe the Deities, another day you don't, you know? It can't be like that.
Because then actually… it's not just having the Deity. The Deity is there so that you follow the standard every day and come up to a higher standard by doing that. Yes, very regulated. That's the whole meaning of having the Deity in the house: so that you are perceiving, you have the consciousness that “My whole house should be Kṛṣṇa conscious. Everything in the house should be dedicated to the Deity.”
But if we take it casually, if we don't have any standard, then the function is lost; so we simply become offensive by doing that. Therefore our qualification should be that we have to be quite strict to do that also. Of course, that's what Prabhupāda wanted — he wanted the gṛhasthas to be strict, to follow principles very nicely, exactly.
Krishna Kshetra Swami: I think we have a question from there.
Question: ...(indist)...
Krishna Kshetra Swami: …and at midnight you have to stand on your head. You know that?
Bhanu Swami: Well, strictly speaking with Gāyatrī, especially with the Vedic Gāyatrī-mantra — which are our first lines, so to speak, of the Gāyatrī — there are a lot of rules mentioned in the śāstra, if you want to go by śāstra. But of course, as Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇavas we don't put so much emphasis upon that — the Vedic rituals and things like that.
That Vedic ritual is called the sandhyā-vandana, and when you chant that mantra you may chant it anything from ten times — that one mantra, the first line — to 1008 at a stretch. That's their japa. They don't do japa like Hare Kṛṣṇa japa — so that's their japa, they chant Gāyatrī-japa. It may take them quite a while to do that. That's their sādhana, or one of their sādhanas.
Around that they also have rituals for purification — do this ācamana and bhūta-śuddhi and other types of worship, tārpaṇas they do, like that. It may take them up to an hour, an hour to an hour and a half, to go through this whole Gāyatrī. And that's just the first line…
And they have different ways of facing: in the morning you face east standing up, at noontime you can face north sitting down, at evening time west sitting down, and you can hold your hands in different positions and all that. Different śāstras give different rules. That's adopted by the person according to what his father did, because you get the Gāyatrī-mantra from your father, who is in a certain line of teaching. It goes down through families like this.
Of course, now we don't have fathers like this; they don't give us this, so it's a little different situation. Plus, because we're Gauḍīyas, we don't emphasize this Vedic Gāyatrī so much and the rituals that go with it.
But we do have other mantras which are there — that are the pāñcarātrika Gāyatrīs, the ones for Lord Caitanya, Kṛṣṇa and guru — these are pāñcarātrika mantras. Originally there were also some simplified rituals to go with these, and the rule is that first you do your Vedic, then you do your pāñcarātrika Gāyatrīs after that. But even that has been a little bit minimized now because we are mainly interested in chanting the holy name and we don't put so much emphasis on these Gāyatrīs.
But still, because it's pāñcarātrika and it's part of pāñcarātrika initiation — this is what Vedic initiation has, the Vedic Gāyatrī — so our dīkṣā, our pāñcarātrika initiation, has these Gāyatrīs we get at the second initiation. These are actual Vaiṣṇava mantras we get through initiation, mantras as part of initiation, so these are the mantras we get. That's why we have to keep chanting them.
The rule would be: we should chant these mantras to get the best effect. Just like Hare Kṛṣṇa — we say there's no rule, no hard and fast rule, for chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, but at the same time we do know that there are certain things you can do to get a better effect. In other words, if you are sleepy, that's not good; therefore if you take a lot of food at night, probably you'll be sleepy in the morning, so it's better not to eat at night — something like that.
Or, to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa you should be clean. Because if you wake up, you take a bath, you put on fresh cloth and you put tilaka on, then it purifies your consciousness a lot. Simply by doing that — that's a purification of consciousness — therefore you can chant better Hare Kṛṣṇa also. Of course, there's no hard and fast rule, but these are favorable for chanting very nicely the Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra without offense. Therefore we tend to do these things.
In the same way we can also use that for the chanting of the Gāyatrī-mantra: do what is favorable for getting the best effect from these mantras. Because these mantras are also nondifferent from Lord Kṛṣṇa. Hare Kṛṣṇa is nondifferent from Kṛṣṇa, so these mantras are also… the kāma-gāyatrī is considered by Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura to be the Gāyatrī in its form in the rāsa-līlā — transformed in the rāsa-līlā, this is the form of Gāyatrī-devī in the rāsa-līlā.
So it's a very exalted mantra. If we are to get the right effect from that, therefore we have to be pretty conscious, pretty Kṛṣṇa conscious to do that. Therefore we will have to follow those things which will make us more attentive to get the best effect of the mantra.
These rules are there, and of course they are effective — even the Vedic rules, like facing different directions also. We don't know, because we are so gross that we can't feel any effect, but different directions also affect us. What we wear affects us, how we clean our body affects us, how we sit affects us — it all affects us in different ways.
In ancient times, scientifically more or less — let's say due to experience in more subtle consciousness — the ṛṣis and sages wrote down, or they directed, which are the most effective means by which our consciousness will be most alert for chanting these mantras. Therefore there are so many rules.
But if we have all these rules nowadays, we become a little bit disturbed by so many rules, so we can simplify things a little bit. But still we can follow the guidance; at least some of these things we should try to implement to improve our chanting.
Question: ...(indist)...
Bhanu Swami: Well, the rule — at least the Vedic rule — is that you do prāyaścitta by offering some tārpaṇas; it's like an apology, in a sense: “Because I could not do it at the proper time, therefore I'm a little sinful; therefore I compensate for that by doing these offerings.” And the other thing is, you chant extra at the next Gāyatrī — minimum of ten extra times you do it.
Question: ...(indist)...
Bhanu Swami: Technically the time is sunrise, and it's actually so many minutes before and after sunrise. It says that the sandhyā begins when the stars begin to appear in the sky — that's when it begins — until so many minutes after sunrise. And then the middle of the day, and then evening time up until the time the sun sets, until the stars begin to appear in the sky. Those are the technical sandhyā periods.
So sandhyā means a “joining” — the joining of day and night and night and day. Those are the two most important ones.
Now there is a significance behind that also; it's not simply a time period, but it's also like a psychophysical period of the body, when the cycles of your body are changing from day-cycle to night-cycle and vice versa. So these particular times are very important for not doing other activities, but very good for meditation. In those particular periods the body changes, so it's good for meditation in those periods. That's why they advise to do it at that time and it's so particular.
If you don't do it at that time they say, “OK, you go to hell for so many lifetimes,” something like that — just to encourage us to do it at the right time, because it's most favorable.
As I was saying, we should try to adopt those favorable rules, or those rules which will help us to increase our attentiveness. Therefore those rules are there, because it's easier at that time to do these meditations better — or it should be, if we are in proper health.
Question: ...(indist)...
Bhanu Swami: It's better. Because it becomes an offense to the Deity also, and therefore the whole temple becomes involved in that offense also.
Question: So then the whole community will have to suffer the reaction?
Bhanu Swami: Yeah.
Question: What would you do in that situation? ...(indist)...
Bhanu Swami: Traditionally speaking, what is done in some temples — I don't know if we should do it in ISKCON — but what they do is they reinstall the Deity. That's like an extreme step: “OK, Kṛṣṇa is gone, now all these offenses are there, therefore let's do the whole thing all over.”
But it's not uncommon — like in South India, every twelve years anyway they do it all over, because due to so many people coming before the Deity and so many impurities happening — automatically, by people being before the Deity — gradually the potency goes out. So every twelve years they “recharge” by having reinstallation.
Question: ...(indist)...
Bhanu Swami: If Deities are stolen or damaged or something like that… Well, according to the śāstra it is not very auspicious; it is not considered a very good sign. They even have a technique, they call it daiva-praśna, so the priests know something is wrong, therefore they go to the astrologer and they have a series of techniques by which they diagnose what happened, who made the mistake, where the mistake is.
Because the Deity is not pleased, and so many things are happening — everything is going wrong — maybe somebody is cooking wrong, or a dog came into the Deity room and passed urine or something, or some untouchable person came up and touched the Deity — so many things may go wrong; or one of the pūjārīs is doing something wrong, offenses, like this… They have different ways of detecting.
Of course, if the actual Deity breaks, that's considered very bad. Generally when that happens, they will replace the Deity, because they say Kṛṣṇa is gone, so they replace the Deity. Because how can we have Kṛṣṇa with a cracked arm? He should be perfect.
So generally, obviously something must have gone wrong in that case — some offense or something — that would be the conclusion. We can't say whose offense, but at least some offense by which the Deity left — Kṛṣṇa left, in other words — because Kṛṣṇa is no longer in a broken Deity. Obviously something went wrong, so all we can do is get a new Deity, re-establish and try to see that there are no offenses on our part. That's all we can do.
The offense, of course, may be that somebody came into the Deity room — some demon — and cracked the Deity; there is little we can do about this, but… therefore we have to take safeguards or something.
Question: Should we install a Deity that has some fine cracks, and also what to do with a Deity… because I had an experience, the Deity was very badly damaged ...(indist)... and some of them were keeping the Deity in the house and they got a new Deity.
Bhanu Swami: Well, technically all Deities should be… that's it — not take an old Deity and start worshipping again, as far as śāstra is concerned. Once the Deity leaves the temple, then that's finished — He should not be worshipped again.
Question: So, where to put?
Bhanu Swami: Different things. Water is one — it's common. An ocean, river.
Question: What about cracked Deities?
Bhanu Swami: Generally, when you install the Deity, you are supposed to find a perfect Deity. Now, there may be some problems in the Western world, because while getting the Deity there so many things may happen, so in one sense you will have to overlook small faults. Of course, nothing is perfect in the material world anyway. We'll have to see the extent of the flaws — that's all we can do. If it's not serious, then we can probably establish. That's my personal opinion; there's no rule in this.
Question: ...(indist)...
Bhanu Swami: Tulasī Mahārāṇī? Not really, I don't think. Because it's not an arcā-vigraha, so it doesn't come under the same rules.
What we are following are the rules according to the pāñcarātrika system. Of course, there are other systems also; they have their own standards. But generally we have taken initiation and follow certain rules like that for each type of worship. But Tulasī Mahārāṇī is not installed or anything according to any system like that, so the same rules would not apply.
But the one rule is there: that one should be clean. One should be physically clean and of course, if possible, mentally clean also.
Question: (break) …some particular Deities were more merciful than the other ones. ...(indist)...
Bhanu Swami: Well, of course Kṛṣṇa is Kṛṣṇa. If Kṛṣṇa is there, then He should be for everybody, isn't it, anywhere.
But I've seen — I was in Tirupati once, and they have a museum there. There was quoting from some śāstra, some pāñcarātrika śāstra, that the mercy of the self-revealed Deity is the most — like the one in Ahobilam…
Krishna Kshetra Swami: Self-manifested.
Bhanu Swami: Yes, self-manifested Deity — They would have the greatest power. But on the other hand, that's like… Kṛṣṇa is Kṛṣṇa, so wherever He is, He'll manifest His power to the observing person.
Question: What's the difference between worshipping Śālagrāma-śilā and Govardhana-śilā and (?)-śilā?
Bhanu Swami: In one sense, nothing.
Question: ...(indist)...
Bhanu Swami: Should he worship the Deity if he's sick or wounded?
Krishna Kshetra Swami: He has a wound or he's sick?
Bhanu Swami: It would depend on the extent of the sickness or the extent of the wound, I suppose. For instance, if you have a contagious disease or you are so sick that you cannot concentrate on doing the Deity worship, it's better not to do — if you can find someone else to do the Deity worship who is qualified.
Of course, if there is no one else there may be some exception to that. Maybe in that case where there's no one else around who can do the Deity worship, there's no initiated person in the temple, then you may be forced to do it.
But, if possible, if you have 102 fever and you are about to collapse, obviously you cannot concentrate so much on your Deity worship, so better someone else does it.
Question: ...(indist)...
Krishna Kshetra Swami: You have to fast until eleven o'clock in the morning!
Bhanu Swami: Sun rises at eleven o'clock? Sometimes it doesn't rise at all! Whether the ṛṣis took that into consideration, I don't know. They didn't consider people after… (?)… following Ekādaśī maybe…
Question: ...(indist)...
Bhanu Swami: The Deities? No.
Krishna Kshetra Swami: This question comes up because of this point about Gaura-Nitāi not taking…
Bhanu Swami: I see. If you have Gaura-Nitāi Deity, then, if the parāṇa was after the breakfast offering, I suppose, strictly speaking, you would. …Is that what they do? They fast until 10:30 in the morning?
Krishna Kshetra Swami: Are they fasting until so late? …Not in Sweden, they don't do like that.
Bhanu Swami: Is there some contradiction where the parāṇa is before the sunrise? No, that could not be. I don't think that could be.
Krishna Kshetra Swami: In Sweden they don't fast at… (indist)...
Question: If in the Polar Circle the sun doesn't rise…
Krishna Kshetra Swami: And in summer it doesn't set.
Bhanu Swami: So there would be no Ekādaśīs anyway. There wouldn't be any Ekādaśīs, because it depends on the sunrise how to calculate the Ekādaśīs, isn't it?
My personal opinion is we would ignore those rules in that case about sunrise and all that. Just set a time like eight o'clock or, let's say, seven o'clock and do it. That would be my practical solution to the problem.
Question: Śrīla Prabhupāda said that if mice or rats contaminate the altar one can kill them. Is that true or not?
Bhanu Swami: You have heard?
Krishna Kshetra Swami: I've heard it. The best is to catch them and send them far away. Somebody asked Prabhupāda, “Can we kill the rats?”, and Prabhupāda said: “No, you should be killed.”
Question: In Madurai temple in northern Guruvāyūr we have thousands of cockroaches all over the cracks, all over the eatings… especially cockroaches, these big ones, but they don't do anything about them.
Bhanu Swami: ...(indist)...
Question: There are many stories about Deities talking to pūjārīs, so what is this process that one can hear; what is this kind of meditation that one can receive it through meditation?
Krishna Kshetra Swami: He is trying to understand from stories we hear that devotees are speaking with the Deities and they are hearing responses. He is trying to understand what is that — is the Deity actually speaking or is the devotee meditating that, or what's happening?
Bhanu Swami: Oh, we can see it like in the Śākṣī-Gopāla case — actually the Deity… (indist)… so in some cases it would be like that; in other cases perhaps it's more like meditation also. It could be either. But in either case — like even in the so-called meditation of seeing the Deity — it's actually Kṛṣṇa, because you are seeing with your spiritual eyes.
So in either case, whether it's somehow, let's say, in some trance state or something, some transcendental state of consciousness, you see the Deity… it doesn't make any difference at that point — it is the actual Deity, because it's Kṛṣṇa.
Krishna Kshetra Swami: In that particular case of Śākṣī-Gopāla, Prabhupāda says that Gopāla was speaking to the young brāhmaṇa; the brāhmaṇa was trying to convince Him to come to that village, and the Deity was saying, “How can I go? I'm a Deity!” And Prabhupāda explains it like this: that the young brāhmaṇa said, “Well, if You can speak, then You can also walk!”, and in this way Gopāla was defeated, and therefore He agreed to go.
Bhanu Swami: So actually we may think things a little astounding in relation to Deities or stories of Deities — just like Gopāla Bhaṭṭa Gosvāmī, he was worshipping Śālagrāma and that changed into a mūrti. How can that happen? Because we know that, according to physical laws in the material energy, how can it change by itself into something else, such a form?
It seems impossible for us, but there are other laws in this world also that we don't know about, and Kṛṣṇa is the Master of all the laws, so He can do anything. So the Deity can be Kṛṣṇa — simultaneously can be a Deity and can also be Kṛṣṇa Himself. It is actually like that, but we need the eyes to see it.
Krishna Kshetra Swami: I think we make this the last question now, but maybe we can convince Mahārāja to come again; we can discuss when and where.
Question: ...(indist)...
Bhanu Swami: I would think that this case of interrupting the worship — for instance, you are worshipping a Deity — this would apply more in a house, of course, than in a temple, where a guest comes. A Vaiṣṇava guest comes in the house, then you would interrupt the worship, receive the guest, seat him down, give him whatever he needs, and then you would continue, with his permission, to complete your worship. So those things would be done by you — you would interrupt your worship sometimes.
In a temple that usually would not apply in many temples, because the reception would not be the same. The reception would be maybe somebody else doing so many things about this one person; so other people would take care of the reception of the guest or whatever. But in the case of ISKCON temples, maybe it will arise that there is no one else in the temple except the pūjārī, and someone walks in, so you have to receive him. Of course, the same principle would apply: we take care of him, receive him, and then continue the worship.
Krishna Kshetra Swami: Can we inspire you to come again, that we make another meeting?
Bhanu Swami: Yes — and when?
Krishna Kshetra Swami: Is between twelve and two a good time for you?
Bhanu Swami: Yes, why not? (Conversation, indist.)
Krishna Kshetra Swami: I also don't know… I doubt that we can be here again, because maybe somebody else will be… My idea would be to have it on the veranda of the library — I know nobody is going to be there — across from the gurukula. How many would be interested in continuing tomorrow?
Devotee: ...(indist)...
Bhanu Swami: Having lunchtime or breakfast time…
Krishna Kshetra Swami: Sure, if we serve breakfast or lunch we will get a big crowd. I really don't know how else we can arrange this, because there's always going to be other things going on.
Bhanu Swami: ...(indist)... I think Harikeśa Swami is giving lecture in the gurukula at that time.
Krishna Kshetra Swami: So, how many would be interested to come?
Devotee: ...(indist)...
Krishna Kshetra Swami: Oh, OK. Why don't we say that tentatively: we can have [it] the day after tomorrow, twelve o'clock, and if that is to be changed I'll check it out, then we'll make a morning announcement. OK, I think we'll end. Thank you all very much.
Śrīla Prabhupāda ki jaya! Śrī Śrī Rādhā-Mādhava ki jaya! Jagannātha-Subhadrā-Baladeva ki jaya! Śrī Śrī Gaura-Nitāi ki jaya! Gaura-premānande! Hari haribol!
Second Day
Krishna Kshetra Swami: We are hoping that Janānivāsa Prabhu will show up and speak about instructions he got from Śrīla Prabhupāda about Deity worship. He said he would come. Also Bhanu Swami may come. They are the ones who really know about Deity worship.
And who among you are full-time pūjārīs at present, or have been full-time pūjārīs? How about part-time pūjārīs — and cooks, we should say?
One thing occurred to me this morning during the Deity reports — something that is done here in Māyāpura for I don't know how long, some years. Every month on Ekādaśī they have such reports before the Deities as we had this morning, where the different department heads of the Māyāpura project give their reports. So today this was an international report.
It occurred to me that this would be a very nice thing, and actually a traditional thing, to be introduced in our society, in our temples: Deity reports.